After an extensive amount of PvP I have had to learn quite a few things the hard way. An amazing amount of people realy arn't to great at it, either they don't have enough time to die over and over again and thus learning through experience or just don't have the natural aptitude for it but would still like to learn.
In my opinion no one is ever the best and there is always someone better out there and one should NEVER shy from learning more. In light of this I am hoping that those of you who have stratagies and methods for taking on certain classes with your chosen class and exploiting your foe's class weaknesses will share them here. Also posting your own classes weaknesses will be helpfull to those of us who don't play your class.
Please, please avoid flaming! This thread has the potential to turn nasty if someone thinks another person's methods are not up to par. If you are not going to offer constructive advice please don't post! I will post a few fundimentals and a few Rogue Vs other classes stratagies when I have had time to compile some information. Unless one of you beats me to it|||Mage
As a general rule of thumb, while not ganking, I always polymorph the player at the beginning fo the fight, unless it is a druid. If for some reason or another I have the first attack unhindered I will combust a pyroblast.
Rogue - After polying, I will unleash a fireball x2, then fireblast. Once he gets close enough, I Frost Nova, back away and repeat. If not dead by this point, (which he should be) I run in circles using strafe to keep distance while fireblasting him. Rogues at the same level as me are fairly easy to kill unless they get a stunlock on me, or resist my frost nova.
Mage - Quick Battle. 2 squishies going against eachother is a sure fire way to have a battle over in a few seconds. I put on my mage armor and fire ward before the fight and get within range of a fireblast. I fireblast them, and assuming like most mages do, they will be casting a fireball. I have more than enough time to cast my fireblast and a counterspell. This gives me no damage taken yet. I will then cast a fireball followed by a fireblast. All of those will have gone off before the mage can deal any damage to me except maybe a fireblast. By this point they are either dead, or I will scorch the remains of them.
Hunter - I will open with a poly, then a pyroblast. I ignore the pet until I get a pyroblast and a fireblast in. Then i run at the hunter and frost nova him. I stay out of range of melee, away from his pet, and inside range of his gun/bow. A hunter was my first character, so I knew how mages beat me, whcih lets me know how to beat hunters now. They are my favorite class to go against.
Warrior - Similar to a rogue, I will always poly first and get maximum distance. I will unleash a pyroblast followed by a fireball, fireball, fireblast. Then Frost Nova them in place, Cone of cold them, and get maximum distance to start the process over again. They will still be very much alive after another round of Fireball, fireball, fireblast, so I strafe from them in a circle spamming fireblasts until the are dead. Intercpets suck though.
Shamans - Dont do it, seriously dont do it. Not only does their windfury drop me to 10% health in 1 swing, their Earthshocks will stop me from casting fire spells for a few seconds, whcih is more than enough time to get in the last few hits to kill me.
Druids - Forget about polying them, they'll just transform out of it. I will get in a fireball, fireblast, frost nova, then try again. If they are smart they will do that thing where the lightning bolt from the sky hits me, whcih will disrupt my spells, but if I can get a critted spell off, generally they will drop quickly.
Locks - Unleash every spell at them, use frost nova to keep minion off, then spam any fire spell that is available. They generally drop quickly, but I need to eat as soon as the battle is over to prevent their DOT's from killing me.
Pally's - They are a lot fo fun. Poly, combustion pyroblast, fireball, fireball, fireblast, wait for them to shield/heal themselves, repeat. Frost nova them in place and blink out of their hammer of justices. Keep Distance and conserve mana. If they are shielded, DO NOT SPAM DAMAGE on them. Tahts a sure fire way to lose your mana quickly, which means you are dead.
Priest - Poly, Combustion pyroblast, fireball and they are dead. Not too much of a fight unless they are awesome.
Ways to beat me. I get taken down my fair share. But here is some ways to do it.
mages - Please throw on mage armor and a fire ward. It makes it much to easy if you dont.
Druids - Transform out of my polymorphs, you will easily die if you dont.
Warriors - Intercept me, hamstring me, keep me close. Use a 2H weapon, I promise Ill die quickly! When I frost nova you, switch to a defensive stance and take out your best shield.
Rogues - Stealth and vanish liek your life depended on it, cuz it does. I get a kick out of rogues who start a battle unstealthed or try to run at me w/o stealthing. If I get you in my running circle game, vanish out and sneak up on me. keep me in stunlock or else you are dead.
Pally's - Try to save your shield/heal until after I use pyroblast. It will kill you if you dont.
Hunter - Scatter shot me, and dont use the sting that lowers my mana. It really doesnt matter, my mana pool is huge compared to the 500 that the spell will suck out of me. But, my health isnt huge and it will drop quickly if you use that sting instead. Get a cat. Fast attack speed means I cant cast spells, whihch means you live. If you see me runnign towards you, back up.
Stigg|||As a rogue, we really have the beauty of it all. Unless we are fighting an exceptional player of thier class, there really is few classes that we can't beat. When I make this statement, remember that I am not speaking about duels, or goofy BGs group zerg PvP. I'm speaking of 1 vs 1, open-world PvP. Also keep in mind that certain specs are almost Impossible for a rogue to beat. When it comes to PvP, anything goes. In this case, I will use everything in my power to beat you into submission. Pots, tea, cooldowns, ect. Anything that is at my disposal will be used. Now then:
An optimal situation is the opener. Getting that Cheap Shot off, or the big numbers Ambush is awesome. About 98% of the fights I have where I get the opener, I will walk away victorious. I'm going to explain each fight with and without a successful opening move, on the part of the rogue.
Mage- Success=Big numbers Ambush. With decent gear, and a good crit, the mage is going to watch half their health be instantly sucked away. Most of the time, unless the mage is fast on thier fingers, I can also get a backstab off. If both of these crit, and the mage isn't in decent gear, it's normally enough to kill them outright. If not, hit them with a kidney shot. A mage is going to instantly blink away from you, and try to get you Frost Novaed. Blind them. Restealth, and either Cheap Shot/Evis, or hit them with another Ambush. No mage in this game has the HP to survive this, if you are decently equipped. You WILL burn cooldowns fighting a GOOD mage. There is no way around it. So, make sure you are prepared, before you try to tackle one.
Failure= Hope that the mage goes for a polymorph. Most will. You should have your PvP trinket equiped, for a speedy break of the poly. Worst case scenario is that the Mage will PoM poly you again. Most mages won't due to diminishing returns, and wasting that PoM. If you are polyed again, watch for the spell they are casting. If it's a frostbolt, be rdy to vanish, AS SOON AS IT HITS. This will break their target lock on you, and will remove that slow effect. Back away from the mage a bit, and re-evaluate for the possible opener. If it's a fireball, be rdy to mash your sprint button, if they are out of range of blind. Either case is to get in range to blind them, and restealth for a possible opener. Remember that a mage will ALWAYS blink out of stun, if Blink is not on cooldown. Always be prepared to keep as close to them as you can. No Mana Shield, no Ice Armor, no nothing can keep you from beating them into the ground, once you are in range. They will try to prevent this at all costs.
Warlock- Woohoo, this is a tricky one. There are so many different specs to Warlocks. You really need to know your target, or be able to study them in combat, to have a grasp on how to deal with them.
Soul Link = Kill the demon that they are linked to. Most Soul Link 'locks are based around fear kite and curses, while they wait for the Nightfall proc. Your best hope is to CC the Warlock, while you dispatch the demon. A good Warlock will have thier Succubus out against a rogue. If they don't, your life is that much easier. Sap/blind the Warlock, and wait for the Seduction from the Succy. Use whatever means you have to break the "charm" effect(trinket/wotf/ect) and then kill the succubus. Once dead, the Warlock is much easier to handle, and will either have to insta-summon another demon, or face your wrath.
Nukers(Destruction/ruin/ect) = These guys are all about the fire dmg. They may have a demon out, and they may not. I've fought a few that totally rely on thier own dmg, and have no need for the demon. DO NOT let them kite you. If they get the range on you, it's going to be a world of hurt. Use whatever means you have to keep them in range for stunning. Lock them down, and thier health will melt away.
Most Warlocks I've seen are the above builds, or hybrids of such. As I stated above, the Warlock is a tricky class, and you really need to know your opponent.
Priest- Ah, the priest. Another class that if played badly, is no challenge. But, if played properly, can spell certain doom. My personal experience leans towards a love of Shadow-priests. They have the dmg mitigation, but they can not heal in that form. And, there is no form of "mitigation" that can stop a determined rogue.
Shadowpriests: They WILL have 3 points into Imp. Shield. This means they will ALWAYS have a shield up, and will renew it every 15seconds, if given the opportunity. Sadly, 1.10 will give ALL priests this ability FOR FREE, and they will then use the points to make that shield absorb MORE. Watch for the priest to shield themselves. Start counting. 1 mississippi, 2 mississippi, ect. At 13 seconds, sap them. Continue to count. Your sap should out-last the 17seconds remaining on the shield. During this time, you should have re-stealthed, or have Imp. Sap. Begin a stunlock on the priest. Most priests will either be mashing the fear button, or thier dots. Those dots hurt, so try to keep them locked down. If the priest gets a fear off, break it ASAP. If a good Shadowpriest gets you kited, it's pretty much over. The dots/Mind Blast/Flay combo can eat through just about any rogues HP in mere seconds. Keep them locked down, and try to prevent spell-casts. Imp. Kick works wonders here, as you can silence the whole Shadow tree.
"Normal" priests: I call them normal, as they are not specced for Shadow. These priests are even MORE dangerous than Shadowpriests. They may not hit quite as hard as a Shadowpriest, but that's because they don't need to. If they get you fear-kited even once, you will be facing that priest back at full health. You must prevent this AT ALL COSTS. If it looks like you are going to lose your stunlock at any time, blind them, and regain control. A priest that can heal will outlast ANY rogue. There is no way around it.
Warriors- Yes, the "rock" to our "scissors". A well-played Warrior should have no issues tearing a rogue into little leather scraps. A well-geared Warrior is going to have around 4-7k HP, depending on Spec/Gear, and about 4-8k Armor. You will know the difference between a Protection Warrior, and a Fury/Arms Warrior. Most, if not all Warriors that are not Protection will be 31/20/0 Mortal Strike Warriors. These hit HARD. They will have thier finger poised over thier "Overpower" hotkey, waiting for us dodgey fellows to light it up. Protection warriors will laugh at our little dagger/swords, as we backstab for 100dmg, or Sinister Strike for 75. Trust me, I've lived it.
"DPS" Warriors: They hurt. No doubt about it. If you even HOPE to stand a chance against a good one, you'd better have bandages and Health pots at the ready. Open with a Cheap Shot. There is no other option. Ambush isn't going to hit that hard, unless they are geared poorly. If that is the case, then they aren't a problem anyways, but we are speaking of well-geared players here. CONTROL is key here. If you can keep a warrior totally locked down, then you have a major success. As I stated above, you are GOING to get hit by Overpower. It's unavoidable. We dodge, it's what we do. Depending on the Warrior's gear, it may or may not hurt BAD, but it will hurt. I personally pop evasion, as soon as I see my first dodge light up. I know the Overpower is coming, but I'd rather dodge everything else that Warrior throws at me. Make sure to use Blind, if you are getting low on health. Blind them, back off, and try to bandage up. If you have good health pots with you, save them for after the bandage. They are instant, and could very well save your life. Lock them down as best you can. Combat rogues do fairly well against them, thanks to Riposte. But, if the Warrior has a weap. chain, or the Stonghold Gauntlets, you will be at a large disadvantage.
Protection Warriors: I avoid them. I've seen some with almost 8k UNBUFFED HP, and 8k armor. They have +defense in the 400ish range, and they will have a shield on with an insane amount of +block on it. With all honesty, I have never beaten a GOOD Protection warrior. They do what they are supposed to. They OUTLAST. For the bad warriors, kite them. Try to get an Expose Armor on, to help a bit with that huge AC count. Hit them with Rupture, as it is Armor-ignoring damage. Keep kiting. Try to stay just inside Intecept range. Hope for the best.
Druids: Once again, another fairly complex class. If they are not Feral, they really are no challenge. Resto spec/Moonkin druids do not have the skills needed to effectively kite a well-played rogue, while mitigating the insane damage that we can put out. If they root you, vanish. If they kite you, sprint. If they heal, interrupt. Keep in melee range, and chew them up.
Feral Druids: THESE, on the other hand, are quite the threat to a rogue. They have the ability to do that of a healer/tank/rogue all in one, and can do so at will. While not as effective as each of those classes individually, wrapped all in one, they are powerful indeed.
Successful opener= We are hoping they are in caster form. They have the least amount of armor in this form, and are the easiest to lock down. Do your damndest to keep them stunlocked. They will most likely try to root you, and get a heal off, before shifting into a feral form. Most good druids will be trying for Bear-form, as that gives them the best chance to mitigate our damage. A well-equipped bear-druid is going to have armor and HP comparable to a Protection Warrior. Follow the guide-line above for warriors, and try to keep them stunned. Watch for them to Feral Charge you, as they will do it when they get low on health. They will charge, and then back away to heal. If a good feral druid gets healed to full, and then back into the fight, you WILL have to pot, or blind/bandage. At this point, you have a serious problem, and you might not walk away alive.
Failure= I'm sorry for you. If a druid gets the drop on you, it will most likely be in cat-form. They will Ravage you, and get a DoT on you. Also watch for Farie Fire, which will keep you from stealthing AT ALL. At this point, you have a serious problem. Try to keep them stunlocked, and in cat-form. While this isn't as good as caster form, it still has less armor than bear-form, and is about your only chance.
Shamans= Complex class. If they are specced for PvP, and know what they are doing, a good Shaman is basically unbeatable 1 vs 1. They have a way to remove any form of CC we have. Posions are worthless. If they know how to kite well, consider the fight basically lost. They will use thier PvP trinket to break your stun, and then Frost Shock you. They will then most likely lay a EB totem, and a Fire totem. This will then keep you out of stealth, and continuously damage you. Your only hope is to be able to front-load so much damage on them, that they cannot heal enough through your stuns to compansate. You WILL burn cooldowns here. Keep them stunned AT ALL COSTS. Shamans are the only class that, when specced and played right, can front-load and heal MASSIVE amounts of damage. I've seen Earth-Shock crits for 2.5k, and I've seen Chain Lighting crits for 2k. It's a scary scary thing to face a PvP specced Shaman who is geared well 1 v 1.
Most Shamans that are Raid/healing specced won't be doing much fighting. They have given up most of thier heavy-hitting damage to be an asset to their raid. Shamans HAVE to be heavily specced into one side of thier trees or the other, to be truly effective at one thing. If they aren't, then they really do fall short. It's because of this that Shamans are not considered "broken" by Blizzard. The only deviance of that is once they are geared well enough to make up for those short-falls. When that becomes the case, just run from them. One of the reasons I rolled Horde.
Paladins- Interesting bunch. Kinda like the pale shadow of Shamans. They can heal like champions, and can actually front-load some pain, if they are specced to do so. Reckoning Paladins are evil evil creatures. They have these horrid bubbles, that NOTHING in the game can do anything about. Fighting one is essentially fighting 3, as that is how many health bars you are going to kill.
Whether you get the opener or not, the outcome is going to be the same. You WILL be Hammer of Justiced, and they WILL heal. If you get them really low really fast, they WILL bubble. WATCH for what type of "bubble" they use. If it's thier "total stoppage pwnt" bubble(you know the one), then back off, and bandage up. You might even get lucky, and be able to re-stealth, while they heal. I also like to do a bit of /danceing, while they heal up. Once this is over, you now have HP #2. Continue to beat on them. Watch for when and if they cast thier second "shield". This looks like a flash of light through thier character model. This makes them immune to physical and magical damage. They will then try to heal again. BLIND THEM. Thier shield makes them immune to damage, but you CAN blind them, and make them walk around all funny looking. Best part of this is that the shield lasts 10seconds, and so does blind. You are now in the home stretch. So, restealth, and start stunning them again, once the shield is gone. Now then, the FINAL straw of the Paladin. You may or may not see this, depending on how badly you have pissed off the Paladin. Lay on Hands. This is a 1-hour cooldown INSTANT full-life to the target spell. I offer congrats to you, if the Paladin has to do this, because they REALLY want to kick your butt at this point. This is a fight about endurance, and tact. You have to bide your time, and chip away at them. Keep your cool, and beat them down.
Rogues- Ahh the rogues. Our fellow stealthy lurkers of the shadow. In my opinion, both the easiest and hardest fight you will have. If you get the opener, and you know your stuff, it should be all over with. Rogues have no real way to counter stuns, so a stunlock will most likely spell death. If you give a GOOD rogue an opening in that stun lock, they will blind/gouge/vanish, and then begin a stunlock on you. So, your best hope is to get the opener. If not, watch for them to make a mistake, and exploit it. The key here is to lock them down, and make sure they don't get that second chance. Be ruthless, and don't hold back.
So, this is just my general knowledge and experience, on my travels in the World of Warcraft. I have yet to play any other class to 60, so I'm not too wise in the ways that other classes play. I only know how they counter Rogues, as I see how they attempt to deal with me. My advice is to get out there, and get to fighting. You can only learn through trying.|||To Mages - Unless you happen to catch a priest AFK, always do an Improved Counterspell before going for Polymorph + Fiery Combo of Doom. Otherwise, you have a good chance of eating a Silence, which will instantly make this fight hideously difficult.|||Quote:
Mage
Locks - Unleash every spell at them, use frost nova to keep minion off, then spam any fire spell that is available. They generally drop quickly, but I need to eat as soon as the battle is over to prevent their DOT's from killing me.
Stigg
I dont think a warlock drops quik at all.. To me warlocks are one of the strongest duelers (and im a shaman oO) They can have 6k unbuffed hp or even more..
Epic geared Soul link warlock also has butload of resistance and with soul link you have to dish out 14k Damage before they drop. Not to mention there life drain wich makes them last even longer. And on top of that the felhunter wich can stop you from casting a spell. And they proly try to chainfear you.
Have i mentioned they RESIST quite alot ?|||Quote:
I dont think a warlock drops quik at all.. To me warlocks are one of the strongest duelers (and im a shaman oO) They can have 6k unbuffed hp or even more..
Epic geared Soul link warlock also has butload of resistance and with soul link you have to dish out 14k Damage before they drop. Not to mention there life drain wich makes them last even longer. And on top of that the felhunter wich can stop you from casting a spell. And they proly try to chainfear you.
Have i mentioned they RESIST quite alot ?
Agree that warlocks are some of the toughest opponents. But I think some of it may be specific to shaman. Locks have a lot of things that shamen can't counter. (No proof, but I think they are the rock that crushes a shaman scissors). Mages on the other hand.... yum. :D|||Quote:
Agree that warlocks are some of the toughest opponents. But I think some of it may be specific to shaman. Locks have a lot of things that shamen can't counter. (No proof, but I think they are the rock that crushes a shaman scissors). Mages on the other hand.... yum. :D
Hasn't anyone ever told you that Shamans and Mages are paper? Warlocks are Mushrooms.|||Mage vs. Lock completely depends on builds.
any Mage vs. SL Lock, the mage is pretty much dead.
Warlock summons felhunter in .5 seconds. He then silences you with the felhunter and oh yeah he has +60 to all resistances and after Soul Link, healthstones, and death coil he affectively has 9900 hp with average gear. Using polymorph is useless since the felhunter will free him from it, not to mention the felhunter will sit there removing your mage armor, dampen magic, ice armor, arcane superbuff, super mage explosion buff, arcane intellect, and whatever the crap other mage-ey things you buffed yourself with.
Mage vs. Destruction Lock is very similar to mage vs. mage. Probably whoever is luckier with crits will be the winner.|||Quote:
Druids: Once again, another fairly complex class. If they are not Feral, they really are no challenge. Resto spec/Moonkin druids do not have the skills needed to effectively kite a well-played rogue, while mitigating the insane damage that we can put out. If they root you, vanish. If they kite you, sprint. If they heal, interrupt. Keep in melee range, and chew them up.
I will dispute this charge, because I know that kcma would like me to ;)
Any good Druid should be getting Faerie Fire on you as soon as possible, either in caster form or feral. Even Moonkin druids should be able to kite you in travel form, and I suggest that if a Moonkin Druid gets this off and roots you, you're pretty much screwed. Moonkin have a lot of armour too IIRC.
A resto druid would try and get a bash off in bear form, Nature's swiftness + big heal etc. Played well a resto druid are very hard to kill
Very good information overall in this thread though. I'm only now starting to get into PvP and all tips are very welcome :)|||Quote:
I will dispute this charge, because I know that kcma would like me to ;)
Any good Druid should be getting Faerie Fire on you as soon as possible, either in caster form or feral. Even Moonkin druids should be able to kite you in travel form, and I suggest that if a Moonkin Druid gets this off and roots you, you're pretty much screwed. Moonkin have a lot of armour too IIRC.
A resto druid would try and get a bash off in bear form, Nature's swiftness + big heal etc. Played well a resto druid are very hard to kill
Very good information overall in this thread though. I'm only now starting to get into PvP and all tips are very welcome :)
If you fail to get the opener on a GOOD druid, you are going to be in for a fight, no matter the spec they are playing. I have yet to meet a GOOD moonkin druid. So much so, that we affectionatly call them OOMkin in my guild. They do have a decent amount of armor, but nothing that a sustained stunlock, and 1 or 2 Cold Blood Evis can't cut through.
Fairie Fire is good for widescale PvP encounters, as it keeps me from stealthing again, once I'm done handling the druid. If I've gotten the opener, I'm probably not going to go back into stealth until you are dead, or I'm running from the GY. 1 vs 1, it really makes no difference if I can't get back into stealth or not. I will have already registered that I can't stealth, and will adapt to beat you accordingly. The beauty of rogues is that we have been given so many ways to lock you down. Once you know we are around, stealth is basically null, unless you are a big-hitting Ambusher.
I've never fought a druid that wasn't full feral, that knew how to properly handle a rogue. That may be due to poor playing, or the players I've fought just not having experience against rogues. My experiences against druids have shown me that unless they are feral, they can't keep up. This may not be true for everyone, as play-styles vary.
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