This has probably been said somewhere else, but im lazy. Welcome to the sunwell badge and PvE instance drop gear - All the pvp gear you desire! (and cant be bothered pvp'ing for)
I PvE more than I PvP (got my hunter 300 resi worth of pvp gear, then took a break, pvped on myriad of other characters over the years). That Blizzard consider PvP completely secondary to everything PvE is pretty obvious, but even with WotLK looming I disagree with their move completely. Im happy to pvp for pvp gear and vice versa.
I also doubt that BT/Hyjal decked guilds wouldn't pitch 6 kinds of fits if they made their gear available for honour or arena points. I'm assuming that pressure from the PvE'ers gave bliz this winning idea (QQ I'm no good in AV with my pve gear! no fair!), it's all a bit too dolls-out-of-the-pram for my liking.
Thoughts?|||Isn't is only s1 gear you can get with the PVE tokens? It definetly isn't s3, and so its not like the PVEers can just waltz in and start owning.|||You can get s2 as well.
Since s3 (part of it at least) requires ratings, you can't trade in t6 for s3, but it goes for s2 as well. How useful.
And since PvP gear is far superior to anything you'll get in Karazhan for PvE purposes, I have no issues with them swapping PvE gear for slightly less powerful PvP gear.|||It's wrong, any way you cut it. I appreciate the amount of effort that goes into getting to BT/Hyjal, it still doesn't vindicate the decision to give out gear for a completely different purpose than how it is being earned.
The game is still too 'pve with a pvp element because some people like that stuff too'. I understand the mighty dollar driving this, and they've done a lovely job of capturing a large part of the market for so long, but meh. Catering to every whine that might get you more customers has to have limits. Making old season gear available for honor is one thing; I'm sure it pissed off some pvpers, but with it still being earned through pvp combat it makes some sense. This just doesn't.
I'd go further into that pvp realms should be FAR more pvp oriented (rather than lulz i gankz0r j00 outside kara K3k), but i'd settle for the rewards making sense for the activity being performed :p.
p.s. S2 is quite competitive, it ain't S3 for sure, but still pretty damn good. Better than PvE gear for PvP (surprisingly) at least.|||There's very little 'wrong' about it.
How is giving PvP-ers gear they won't ever need for PvE stuff that works just fine in BT then in your opinion?
Vindicator's Ring is on par with BT gear for some classes - in a few cases even better.
S3 armour is top notch for a bunch of classes, such as Feral Druids.
S3 weapons are best in-game for Rogues as offhand till (maybe) midway Black Temple, whilst s2 weapons will carry you all the way through SSC+TK.
All of that for losing 10 games a week (well, except the s3 weapons obviously). I don't see PvE-ers getting epix for wiping on a boss 10 times. "Come on guys, let's wipe on Attumen 10 times - after that he goes "well, nice tries, come back next week for more, here's some epics for the time spent"".
PvP-ers get given PvE gear. PvE-ers get given PvP gear that isn't even on par with what you can get in Arenas (as opposed to what the PvP-ers receive from Arenas).
Stop getting yer knickers in a bunch. Both sides.|||Faulty thinking. Some pvp gear translates, for my tank druid some of it certainly does. It is still no substitute for the tier sets however. It can 'do', but isn't as good as most.
Were you to collect the whole s2/s3 sets by failing 10 times a week, just how long would it take? A year? Say you sat on a 12-1300 rating for a while, that translates to stuff all gear for a long, long time. And i've yet to see a BT/Hyjal gear tell someone that 's3 gear is sweet for BT come on down dude'. PvP gear does NOT measure against its equivalent PvE gear for PvE. Go to elitistjerks im pretty sure they have some nice pretty formulas you can run to see the comparison of both. PvP gear is made for high damage for a short period, not the sustained dps of PvE gear.
End of the day they won't change it. Yet just because a large portion of people whined about pvp gear and got it for pve, it doesn't make the decision a good one.
Is it that hard a concept, pvp for pvp, pve for pve? Not the excuse driven opinions that people put out as justification for something that isn't justified. Making PvE gear available for PvP wouldn't make it 'right' or 'balanced', it would just make another wrong choice by Blizzard.|||Check BT gear members. Look at their rogues and see how many of them are using a s3 off-hander.
Look at their Enh shamans and see how many of them are using the s3 ring.
Look at some of the warriors and see what parts of the s3 set or even the weapon they use.
It's not built explicitely for that content, but it gets there by merit of its high itemlevel and lack of demand for more than a few stats by those classes.
Look at the s3 caster weapon and then compare it to what drops in MH/BT. You can go a year of killing Archimonde and still not see the caster sword.
The PvP gear fixes itemisation gaps or RNG-screwovers. It works in high end PvE settings.
Do high end PvE settings and farm them to tears and you can get some out-of-date honour gear. Boo hoo.|||Quote:
Faulty thinking. Some pvp gear translates, for my tank druid some of it certainly does. It is still no substitute for the tier sets however. It can 'do', but isn't as good as most.
Very true. The feral PvP armor is nice for ferals, especially at the Kara level (more on that later). But other than weapons, that's the best match from what I've seen for most classes. Heck, some of my characters would have almost no DPS increase, if not a decrease, switching from blues to S3 epics. Sure, I'd gain armor and health, but if I'm not a tank, I need to focus on my ability to sustain large amounts of DPS. PvP gear is all about surviving long enough to kill the other guy, it's not designed for the longer fights you see against raid bosses.
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Were you to collect the whole s2/s3 sets by failing 10 times a week, just how long would it take? A year?
As of right now, at 1200 rating, you can get from 211 (for a 2v2 team) up to 278 for a 5v5 team. At 211 points, you're looking at over 15 weeks just for a S2 2H weapon. For the S2 2H, S2 shoulders, and S3 Gloves/Chest/Pants/Helm, you're looking at 11315 points, or 53-54 weeks of grinding at 211 points a week. Mind you, it's only 40-41 weeks for a 5v5 team. Still, even at just 10 matches a week, that's a lot of time to invest.
Now, some people will have two objections to those numbers. First, pointselling, to which I reply, fix pointselling if that's the problem.
Second, they'll say it's easy to have a score higher than 1200. On that specific score, they're probably right. However, a 1500 score would only mean 25% more points (points earned is linear until 1500, past that the points you get goes up fast until past 2K), and getting a score better than 1500 isn't easy for the general population. Why? Because 1500 is the average score. That means that at any given time, approximately half the people out there will have a score lower than 1500. And that average includes people that have been grinding longer, so they'll have more PvP gear than you even if they aren't actually better players. If you're good at PvP, sure it's easy to get a score above 1500. But just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it's easy for everyone.
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It's not built explicitely for that content, but it gets there by merit of its high itemlevel and lack of demand for more than a few stats by those classes.
This is the real reason PvP gear gets used in PvE. Even for my feral druid, for whom the PvP gear is great, if I compare S1 epic armor to her current (crafted/quested) gear, it would be downgrades for just about every slot. Then again, iLvl 105-115 blues really can't be expected to compare to iLvl 141 epics like the S3 gear, even if the epics waste stats on PvP oriented stats rather than PvE ones.
As a raid leader, I don't mind raiders that gear up in the Arena to get better gear to raid Kara, as long as they know what pieces are good and what ones are downgrades. For my warlock, who doesn't have a single Kara (or other raid) drop, any of the Arena armor would be a downgrade for DPS, so I tend to look suspiciously at caster DPS players that wear too much of the Arena armor, especially if they pass on the good Kara drops because they feel the arena armor is better. Yes, some survivability is good, but you don't want to give up too much DPS for survivability.|||Too many people just cop the money shot from Bliz time and time again, still with their big ****-eating-grin on their face. And then back em up for the decision.
Beruen said it better than I, survivability vs dps. I know which raids prefer.|||Quote:
Beruen said it better than I, survivability vs dps. I know which raids prefer.
Me too - both.
Your DPS ain't worth a damn if Naj'entus one-shots ya everytime the AoE comes up. Similarly, if you don't have the DPS to burn him down, you're not getting anywhere either.
I honestly don't see why people have an issue with Blizzard handing out epix to specific portions of the gamers. Handing out epix like candy to *all* gamers, maybe. Some ? Naw.
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